San Stefanos Online ~ North West Corfu
Welcome to San Stefanos (NW Corfu) => San Stefanos news and views => Topic started by: Sellsy on March 15, 2013, 01:51:20 PM
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As non smoker I wonder what members views are on smoking while dining on terraces and balconies? We love the Little Prince, on our last two meals on the Veranda near the roadside we were surrounded on all sides by tables of smokers who lit up after every course. This did not run in sequence with our courses which meant we were practically tasting cigarette smoke as we ate? Am I being pedantic? Is this an acceptable part of alfresco dining? I notice ashtrays are provided both in and outdoors in all SS restaurants.
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As I smoke a lot, I always try to sit as far away from other people as possible. Little Prince used to have a non-smoking area, which is a good idea. With a tactful approach most smokers will move or pop off-piste for a quick drag. Little Prince is the most popular venue in Ag Stef, so it can get a bit crowded.
Nafsika has a very large no-smoking area.
After a long winter huddled under the space-heaters in wine-bar gardens, it's a real pleasure to be able to relax and smoke in Greece. All it takes is a bit of give-and-take and everybody can be happy. After all, smokers spend the winter outside - perhaps non-smokers could share the experience by eating inside!
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As I smoke a lot, I always try to sit as far away from other people as possible. Little Prince used to have a non-smoking area, which is a good idea. With a tactful approach most smokers will move or pop off-piste for a quick drag. Little Prince is the most popular venue in Ag Stef, so it can get a bit crowded.
Nafsika has a very large no-smoking area.
After a long winter huddled under the space-heaters in wine-bar gardens, it's a real pleasure to be able to relax and smoke in Greece. All it takes is a bit of give-and-take and everybody can be happy. After all, smokers spend the winter outside - perhaps non-smokers could share the experience by eating inside!
Why should non smokers share the experience? They have not chosen an alienating habit in the first instance.
* this is coming from a former (30 a day for 18 years) smoker.
This will be my first time in SS as a non smoker. In previous years I would always get up and smoke away from the tables (usually away from the restaurant completely) because my children were always seated at the table. I would expect anybody else to smoke away from my children also and won't mind telling any smokers either.
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I find that slightly aggressive response a little sad. I think it should be "ask" not "tell."
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lol Jimbo! All for a bit of a common sense approach but don't think the missus would like to dine 'in' every night! Think we were a little unlucky re the number of smokers surrounding our tables last year. Cant say I noticed many non smoking areas around town last year? Don't think its a problem when you really are 'outside', but many areas are half and half. Don't really want to cause a 'us and them' thread but personally, if there were clear non smoking alfresco tables, I think I would happily wait to sit there. Never been a smoker just struggle with the whole thing, however,each to their own, especially on holiday!
D@g as an ex smoker would you now look out for non smoking areas?
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I am a "reformed" smoker, but I do find the smell of smoke unpleasant, even outdoors. What annoys me though, is when the rules (and I think there are some!) are openly flaunted. Last year I was in a bar in SS, which was enclosed on all sides, and a customer lit a cig. right next to the "No Smoking" sign. When we pointed to the sign, the response was "this is Greece, who minds?" Of course the bar staff should not allow this, but no action was taken. I felt that an unpleasant scene would ensue if I started protesting, so did nothing. The problem is that the "rules" are not enforced in Greece (and other EU countries) to the extent that they are in the UK.
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I stopped smoking 18 months ago. When I did smoke I enjoyed being able to smoke after my meal whilst sat at the table. I would say that I always tried to be considerate and not to light up if the people next to me where mid course. Now I have no issue with people smoking around me, after all they are ot breaking any laws by smoking outdorrs. I find it highly irritating that people would try to impose their views and beliefs on others who are doing nothing wrong. If you don't like someone legally smoking next to you then move or sit inside. I am getting realy sick & tired of lefty do gooders constantly telling other people how to live their lives! Rant over.
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Sounds to me like you need a cigarette!
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Rover - I regard the ban on smoking in bars in the UK as outrageous. How nice that the Greeks (some of the longest-living people in the world) have a more relaxed attitude to overbearing regulations. I can happily accept not smoking in restaurants - but bars? I don't think so.
I suggest that people who don't like the smell of smoke don't go to barbecues.
Personally, I dislike the smell of sanctimoniousness.
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Ahh Jimbo, your habit has impaired your sense of smell. Tobacco smoke and the smell of cooking are different.
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There's been no change to the smell of "Holier Than Thou," though.
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Oh dear, how trite!
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I gave up smoking in 1986.I respect the right of any one who wants to continue smoking but I do not believe it should be allowed in a dining area be it within an enclosed space or in the open. Knowing the well advertised dangers of second hand smoking I believe any smoker with a conscience would not smoke among diners.I do not care if it is law or not .
Just take look at the NHS notice enclosed.
NHS
Secondhand smoke
Secondhand smoke comes from the tip of a lit cigarette and is the smoke that the smoker breathes out.
People who breathe in secondhand smoke are at risk of the same health conditions as smokers, particularly lung cancer and heart disease. For example, breathing in secondhand smoke increases a non-smoker's risk of lung cancer by 24% and heart disease by 25%.
Children are particularly affected by secondhand smoke because their bodies are still developing. For example, children under five have an increased risk of chest infections, and babies are at greater risk of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) or cot death.
Yammas
Yiannis
These views are mine & mine alone.I leave yours to your conscience.
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Rover - I regard the ban on smoking in bars in the UK as outrageous. How nice that the Greeks (some of the longest-living people in the world) have a more relaxed attitude to overbearing regulations. I can happily accept not smoking in restaurants - but bars? I don't think so.
I suggest that people who don't like the smell of smoke don't go to barbecues.
Personally, I dislike the smell of sanctimoniousness.
Thankfully, IMO, you were not voted into parliament then.
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I actually would not have minded Jimbo being voted into parliament, at least he is honest and talks straight unlike the bent incompentent baffooons /nose in troughs self pocket lining dictators that are running the show in this country! :) :) :)
The thing is if you do breathe in a some smoke in a two week holiday then it won't do you any harm, it might though if you are constantly exposed to it but since it has been banned in pubs in the Uk where most of us live then I would not worry and just enjoy your holiday. Most of us drive cars which pollute the air that we breathe on a regular basis (adding to pollution alot more than a 2 week holiday of being close to a smoker) and then we catch a flight to Corfu which also causes pollution so we are all guilty tbh but then nobody is perfect!
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I have never smoked. I know the dangers. Alfresco - come on? Why not - move if you don't like to be near a smoker! Why should it bother me - I am on holiday and so is everyone else - tolerance is a wonderful thing. Chill and be happy - that's what I say. Prejudice and judgementalness (is there such a word?) leaves a bitter taste. Life is definitely too short.
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I have never smoked. I know the dangers. Alfresco - come on? Why not - move if you don't like to be near a smoker! Why should it bother me - I am on holiday and so is everyone else - tolerance is a wonderful thing. Chill and be happy - that's what I say. Prejudice and judgementalness (is there such a word?) leaves a bitter taste. Life is definitely too short.
Well said Debra and you are right in that life is to short, for me I am happy just to be able to go on holiday this year having had some health problems so I don't care if people smoke or not, I don't care if people are doing the 'Dad dance' at the condor bar, in fact I don't even care if it rains, I just feel fortunate that I afford to go on holiday so will be concentrating on having a good time, only 11 weeks to go!
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Im gonna do the Dad dance this year!!!
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Never smoked a fag in my life but I really dislike the anti-smoking storm troopers.
If you dont like smoking dont go to Greece where 70% of the population enjoy smoking without a Nanny state nagging them all the time.
As for anti-smokers preaching the benefits of clean air, how many of them drive cars that belch out a multitude of gases, few of which are beneficial to our health.
Tolerance is what is needed.
Andy
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Interesting points one and all, just to confirm I raised the question as we had a meal spoilt by excessive smoke from several tables all around us. We were under cover in a balcony area. We didn't complain just smiled and got on with our meals, we were on holiday, it's what you do. It's not practical to move mid meal, but it may be practical to have non smoking areas? The alfresco aspect is relevant , outdoors not a problem, but in semi enclosed dining areas it can genuinely be unpleasant for non smokers.No prejudice,no nanny state storm troopers,no human rights articles being waved about,just a family tolerating the habits of others and asking a reasonable question of fellow holiday makers, Is it right to smoke next to fellow diners as they eat their meal?
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Lilly, Gav, ....The Dad dance! Now there's a thread starter if ever I read one....over to you ......Gav I've seen your shapes on the dance floor, you danced like a Dad even before the little one arrived!
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Love it - the dad dance!!! Will be looking out for that then..................
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One things for sure......... You can always rely on a topic about smoking to liven up the forum for a day or two! :D
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Smoking and jam, fierce topics!
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The statistical studies upon which the conclusions about secondary smoking are based are widely considered to be deeply flawed and scientifically unsound. There is no clinical evidence - only dubious statistics.
The largest studies conducted are in America, where a senior judge said the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) had illegally manipulated the data - including lowering the reliability rating from 95% to 90% to get a result that was politically motivated, and that it had ignored any studies which went against the desired outcome. One research paper, for example, found a 20% lower incidence of asthma in children whose parents were smokers.
As Mark Twain said, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics!
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Gavlah doing the Dad dance, would love to see that! ;D ;D ;D
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As Mark Twain said, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics!
Hi Jimbo
The above statement is very true.You can prove anything with statistics.
People have very polarised views on smoking.
We have both the pro & anti stormtroopers in our midst.
My view is somewhere down the middle.This post is about smoking while dining alfresco.My view is that non smokers should not be subjected to smoking during their meal, however you achieve this.My personal view is if I was a smoker I would refrain from smoking.I would not put a non smoker in the position of having to move to avoid my smoke.I would find it much more convenient for everyone to leave the dining area to have a smoke.As regards smoking in general, including in open air bars I have no problem with this.In the past my most satisfying smoke was while drinking.
Yammas
Yiannis
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The statistical studies upon which the conclusions about secondary smoking are based are widely considered to be deeply flawed and scientifically unsound. There is no clinical evidence - only dubious statistics.
The largest studies conducted are in America, where a senior judge said the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) had illegally manipulated the data - including lowering the reliability rating from 95% to 90% to get a result that was politically motivated, and that it had ignored any studies which went against the desired outcome. One research paper, for example, found a 20% lower incidence of asthma in children whose parents were smokers.
As Mark Twain said, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics!
Well said jimbo, there are lies, lies and statistics particularly when it comes to government politically motivated propaganda.
It's the same with Global Warming but that's another issue ;D ;D ;D
Andy
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Interesting points one and all, just to confirm I raised the question as we had a meal spoilt by excessive smoke from several tables all around us. We were under cover in a balcony area. We didn't complain just smiled and got on with our meals, we were on holiday, it's what you do. It's not practical to move mid meal, but it may be practical to have non smoking areas? The alfresco aspect is relevant , outdoors not a problem, but in semi enclosed dining areas it can genuinely be unpleasant for non smokers.No prejudice,no nanny state storm troopers,no human rights articles being waved about,just a family tolerating the habits of others and asking a reasonable question of fellow holiday makers, Is it right to smoke next to fellow diners as they eat their meal?
Just to say that I do think smokers should be considerate when other people are eating nearby, it doesn't bother me but it may do other people. Gill smokes 'a lot' but if the smoke goes across to other dinners out goes the fag. It's just being considerate.
What I object to is the blanket ban in the UK of what is after all a legal activity, I wish we could ban naughty children in restaurants as easily ::)
Andy
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Andy - let's not start on global warming, which is indisputable!
Here are a few actual facts for the anti-smoking devotees to remember:
* In 2012 UK smokers contributed £12.1 billion to the exchequer - representing approximately 2% of total income, and 11.1% of the NHS budget, or the whole of Child Benefits.
* Smokers live on average five years less than non-smokers, representing a massive saving in pensions and health care.
* Smokers pay 10 times as much money towards the NHS as they cost.
* The UK is the third most expensive place to buy cigarettes in the world.
* The World Health Organisation stated that increasing prices had little or no effect on smoking rates.
It should be fairly clear from this that if smoking was actually banned, UK taxes would have to rise by substantially more than 2%.
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I was a heavy smoker 20 years ago.I gave up when my son had developed asthma at the age of 5.It was one of the best things i ever did, not only for my son but also my own health.Im not an anti smoker as i know how much i enjoyed a fag after a meal or with a pint.I just think its curtious to have a smoke away from the area where people are eating.
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I was a heavy smoker 20 years ago.I gave up when my son had developed asthma at the age of 5.It was one of the best things i ever did, not only for my son but also my own health.Im not an anti smoker as i know how much i enjoyed a fag after a meal or with a pint.I just think its curtious to have a smoke away from the area where people are eating.
Exactly the same as me.
You can keep quoting facts and figures about smoking and passive smoking etc but the only fact that matters to me is I don't want or deserve myself or my family stinking of your cigarette smoke. It shouldn't be too much to ask should it?
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My last post on this subject is .about a year after i has give up the dreaded weed we went to a wedding party in the evening.as usual there was some buffet left over, my son was given some gateaux and butties to bring home with him.The following day he wanted his gateaux after his dinner, no problem.So as you do i took a small sample, it was disgusting.Was like eating an ashtray, with it standing for the evening in the room with all the cig smoke.So i am in full favour of no smoking where food is involved,and that there is no smoking in public places.
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I'm not sure the original question was about health being damaged by passive smoking, it was whether a non smoker should have to put up with smoke around them whilst eating.
I cannot see why they should have to, if you want a smoke have the common decency not to do it in an area where others are eating. Clearly smoking near diners will not be a pleasant experience for them, why should they have to tolerate it?
Oh, I'm not a non smoking storm trooper, just a smoker who goes to the bar or away from diners for his after dinner smoke.
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I have an idea.
Smokers are expected to smoke outside during the winter while non smokers enjoy eating in the warm inside.
So in summer this should remain the same with non smokers eating inside and smokers outside.
Seems fair to me ;D ;D
Andy
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Great idea, especially when it is raining.
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I have an idea.
Smokers are expected to smoke outside during the winter while non smokers enjoy eating in the warm inside.
So in summer this should remain the same with non smokers eating inside and smokers outside.
Seems fair to me ;D ;D
Andy
Yes because non smokers deserve to be punished for not having a dirty smelly habit, seems fair.
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The waft of cigarette smoke is ok IMHO, much more tolerable than the LOUD mouth subject matter experts (on any topic!!) who just drone on and on and on and on. Now that is a habit I would definitely ban in all establishments.
Nothing worse when standing at the urinal enjoying quiet contemplation when the local encylopedia turns up next to you and begins his next diatribe. In those situations you should be allowed to turn 90 degrees and continue peeing :)
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Hmm.. Before you make that 90 degree turn, you should check which way the wind is blowing!
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Andy - let's not start on global warming, which is indisputable!
Here are a few actual facts for the anti-smoking devotees to remember:
* In 2012 UK smokers contributed £12.1 billion to the exchequer - representing approximately 2% of total income, and 11.1% of the NHS budget, or the whole of Child Benefits.
* Smokers live on average five years less than non-smokers, representing a massive saving in pensions and health care.
* Smokers pay 10 times as much money towards the NHS as they cost.
* The UK is the third most expensive place to buy cigarettes in the world.
* The World Health Organisation stated that increasing prices had little or no effect on smoking rates.
It should be fairly clear from this that if smoking was actually banned, UK taxes would have to rise by substantially more than 2%.
Indisputable, you reckon?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294560/The-great-green-1-The-hard-proof-finally-shows-global-warming-forecasts-costing-billions-WRONG-along.html
Looks like Global Warming has run out of steam mate ;)
Sorry Jimbo I couldnt resist, at least we agree about passive smoking which is just as well sharing a table at the Little Prince with you and the two Gillie's ;D ;D ;D
Must do it again next summer 8)
Andy
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I agree totally with Baj. The trouble is that non smokers do NOT have any choice whether they smoke or not if smokers are indulging in their habit. Even if you aren't convinced about the health stuff you still end up smelling of it.
It might be a silly comparison but I enjoy doing cross stitch and if I do it at the table it does not affect anyone else....... but if you choose to smoke I have to smell it too. Not that I do cross stitch at the table as a rule.....(usually too busy eating and drinking and talking too much!) but you get my drift!
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I agree totally with Baj. The trouble is that non smokers do NOT have any choice whether they smoke or not if smokers are indulging in their habit. Even if you aren't convinced about the health stuff you still end up smelling of it.
It might be a silly comparison but I enjoy doing cross stitch and if I do it at the table it does not affect anyone else....... but if you choose to smoke I have to smell it too. Not that I do cross stitch at the table as a rule.....(usually too busy eating and drinking and talking too much!) but you get my drift!
But you could say the same thing about driving a car as the exhaust fumes clog up the air and can cause respritory conditions, where do you dram the line?
Andy
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Andy - I can't believe your'e actually quoting the Daily Mail - the paper with the worst record of appalling lies in the history of journalism!
That the report is spurious. I'm amazed that you would quote it.
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My complaint last year was one evening when it was particularly windy, and everyone was eating indoors.
I was very disappointed when the member of staff who was serving us, went outside to have a quick puff, then came back in, and passed our table, still carrying a lit cigarette, trailing the smell behind her.Horrible, we won't be eating there again!
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Being a none smoker all my life I don't like people smoking near me but whilst on holiday for my 2 weeks I accept that some people will smoke at there table. By the time most start smoking it is usually time for us to be moving on anyway. Having said that we have never seen that many smoking near us either. For the sake of my 2 weeks holiday in the place we love we accept that there is a bit of give and take.
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I agree cigarette smoke is not a pleasant smell but I find it difficult to believe that meals and holidays can be ruined by the odd smoker in the outside area of a taverna. ???
Usually these are open on three sides even if they have a roof. There is usually a sea breeze and I can't think that clothes and hair will smell with all the swims, showers and time spent in the open air. If it really is so bad to you then why not mention it, politely, to the the smoking table and I'm sure they would happily move. I have observed non-smokers being very rude and "telling" others to stop it and how disgusting they are. We are not in England and it is allowed and it is so wonderful for a smoker not to have to always lurk about feeling like a pariah. Let's face it, we all love to watch the Greek dancing. The amount of barbecue fuel that is used every evening is huge and the smell not very nice at all and certainly not good for us but we love the spectacle and know we would never be allowed to set light to tables and floors in England in this way!! ;D Let's just be tolerant.
I have just given up smoking - not had one since October! Bet you don't believe me those of you who know me, but it's true.
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Good post there Gillie, tolerance , live and let live values come through in yours and many posts on this thread, values and rules for living that we certainly share , and have brought our children up to appreciate.I was in two minds before posting. It was triggered after we had an expensive meal spoilt by regular smoking from all sides around our evening meal. Just wondered what people thought? where the line is etc? I got the feeling that as the smokers were in the majority, all engaging in the habit, that they no longer felt they needed to consider the comfort of others. Not one smoker asked if it would be a problem for us or our child. I wonder if over time regular smokers become entirely desensitised to the smell and impact of smoke in semi alfresco environments. I have choice were I travel to, how close I would sit my children to fire shows etc. I'm certainly not a health and safety guru, but given the choice , I would, without fuss or judgement , always attempt to sit my family away from other people's smoke, especially when eating. Given the present management of smoking in the uk it can be a bit of a shock on holiday, especially for children.
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Has anyone ever farted (silently) when eating Al Fresco in San Stef ?
Given the amounts of marinated food and gassy Mythos consumed by Forum members I can't belive everybody manages to hold it in or waits for an appropriate moment to pass in private ;)
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Don't know Loftyscot, but I will let you know if I hear anything!
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The wife let rip during our last visit. This was at the Ozzy Oil Bbq night. Sellsy was there but I don't think he heard. I think Kerry heard but she kept belting out '24 hours from Tulsa' like the true pro she is!
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How shocking! There could have been children around.
Among other things, farting produces methane. I think farting al fresco should be banned. I've had several evenings ruined by people at surrounding tables breaking wind.
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There comes a time when a thread runs its course and exhausts all subject matter! Given the amount of hot air in recent posts its time to turn the other cheek and vacate. It's been a blast! ;D
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Being a none smoker all my life I don't like people smoking near me but whilst on holiday for my 2 weeks I accept that some people will smoke at there table. By the time most start smoking it is usually time for us to be moving on anyway. Having said that we have never seen that many smoking near us either. For the sake of my 2 weeks holiday in the place we love we accept that there is a bit of give and take.
I think this is the way most visitors to the village feel - nicely put Jules...
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I am a smoker, but always considerate of those around me. We don't eat until about 10pm and mainly at Nafsika. When we arrive, it is normally fairly quiet, but I would actively look for a table away from obvious non smokers. I would certainly never smoke whilst people are eating, as I would not like that myself and I would never smoke anywhere near children, in restaurants or bars. I do however like a cigarette when I am having a drink in an outside bar. The thing that annoys me is when a non smoker decides to sit next to me, when I am smoking and starts wafting the smoke away, rather than choose a seat away from me!! In that situation, I have no problem lighting up if they choose to be in my line of smoke!
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Nafiska has a no-smoking area. If they choose to sit next to you, that's frankly stupid.
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Do you wear a T-Shirt with a warning label on it then Karen?? LOL
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Don't have a problem at all with these balanced views and approaches. More than happy to be considerate of smokers rights and enjoyment on holiday. If all smokers were as thoughtful and considerate as Karen there would never be a problem. Equally I would not condone non smokers looking for conflict in any situation.Interesting thread though?
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Sellsy - this thread has all been done before - -in earlier times - still no change - we hardly ever find a problem in San Stefanos
and usually find that common sense rules these days..... after all - we are all on holiday.... !!
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Not sure I follow your point Tonyco, if a thread has been covered before, don't raise it as a current point of conversation? Its one of the busiest threads at the moment, and it remains reasonably light hearted with good grace and humour. Many hits also. I was looking for opinions and thoughts ,ideas etc, and the topic delivered this. Is this not the place to discuss opinions, even if similar topics have occurred in the past?
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Certainly seems to have been a popular thread, with some sparky comments. We have had some interesting views and opinions expressed?
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I used to be a smoker - gave up 20+ years ago.
My wife and I have v much enjoyed the smoking ban in the UK in bars and restaurants and i genuinely cant believe that smoking was legal in bars and restaurants a few years ago.
As for abroad in Europe the ban varies.
In Portugal where we go on the Algarve some bars are allowed a smoking and non-smoking zone; crazy thing is an indoor bar can still allow smoking in a designated area - as u can imagine in a busy bar the smoke soon invades the non-smoking area.
In many Greek bars we've been in they dont seem to take much notice or enforce any ban.
In Fuerteventura where we've been a number of times in recent years most bars/restaurants do enforce it - outside is where people are allowed to smoke. And that's v nice for us.
If we were sat in a bar whilst on hols abroad, in a no-smoking area and someone lit up i'd probably say something and if the person continued i'd probably grab the ciggie and crush it.
If i was outside eating and someone lit up on the table next to me and the smoke was encroaching on us whilst eating i'd politely ask the 'offender' to move; if he/she didnt and the smoke continued to directly affect us i'd probably grab the ciggie and crush it.
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Bristle Boy - some years ago Gillie and I were in Stoupa and we went for supper in a taverna overlooking the sea. We picked a table on the edge. There was a boat moored below and the diesel had spilled. The smell was very strong. There were very few people in the place and we moved to a table in the middle, quite a long way from the only other couple.
Towards the end of the evening, one of the two diners (shaved head, piggy eyes) came over and said that our smoking had ruined their evening. I pointed out that (a) we were quite a long way from them (b) there was a jerry-can leaking diesel and that was what had tainted everyone's supper. He threatened to throw me on the rocks twenty feet below. I told him to go and do something proverbial to himself.
As he was grabbing me the staff rushed over and restrained him - profoundly puzzled by this - as most Greeks are - shouting "It's outside!!!"
Quite right - ask people politely not to do what they are perfectly entitled to do. Very politely. Remember that this is a request, not a legal requirement.
I think Tony and Linda will testify that when asked if they minded us smoking, and they said please don't, we did not. We didn't complain. The company was more important than the cigarette.
If I can move, so can you. Somewhat depends upon who sat down first.
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Fancy a pint Jim?!
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Yeah - I'll have a pint of Brakspeare, please.
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Oxford Gold?
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I dont agree with people smoking when eating even if its outside. People should think of other peoples health. My Mum suffered from breathing problems and would have found it hard to breath if a smoker was near her.
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I don't agree with many things in life but it is a little bit of give and take on both sides, the fact is that smoking is allowed in Greece so anyone that is doing so is not breaking any laws, we are talking mainly about a two week holiday, the other fifty weeks of the year spent in the Uk the ban is in force but Greece is not the UK and therefore the smoking ban does not apply.
On holiday I just aim to have a good time and I won't be spending anytime on thinking about the habits of others for the sake of two weeks but if others peoples habits bothered me so much then I would not visit Greece or other countries but would instead opt for a desert island on which to holiday.
Jules penned a spot on post earlier in this thread.
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If we were sat in a bar whilst on hols abroad, in a no-smoking area and someone lit up i'd probably say something and if the person continued i'd probably grab the ciggie and crush it.
If i was outside eating and someone lit up on the table next to me and the smoke was encroaching on us whilst eating i'd politely ask the 'offender' to move; if he/she didnt and the smoke continued to directly affect us i'd probably grab the ciggie and crush it.
Give & take - that's the spirit! Like I said earlier I stopped 18 months ago but when I did smoke if someone had carried on in that vein they would have been spending the rest of their hols in Corfu General.
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I said something to that effect last night, but withdrew it.
Asking politely is not asking if only one result is acceptable. It's illegal bullying, assault, behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace etc.
Smoking outside is legal in the UK as well as Greece, and when the Arctic weather recedes I fully expect and intend to be doing so at my local wine bars, let alone in Ag Stef in the summer.
The absolutely last way to persuade anybody to move is to be aggressive.
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I agree, aggression will get you nowhere and rightly so. Perhaps the 'crushing of the cigarette' may depend on whether the smoker is an heavily built 6ft man who has the potential to wrap you around the nearest lampost or a little old dear (easy target), then again she could always hit you with her handbag. Nobody has a right to crush other peoples property or indeed dictate to others, you can ask politely but like Jimbo points out, it is not asking if only one result is acceptable.
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Seems like i upset a few ;)
The irony of people smoking on a table next to us, whilst al fresco, is never lost on us when one person is smoking and deliberately blows his/her smoke away from their party on their table with no regard for 'strangers' sat next to them on another table.
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Have you actually got any legs? Had it ever crossed your tiny mind that you could move?
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Seems like i upset a few ;)
The irony of people smoking on a table next to us, whilst al fresco, is never lost on us when one person is smoking and deliberately blows his/her smoke away from their party on their table with no regard for 'strangers' sat next to them on another table.
I wouldn't worry about it Bristle.
Being an ex smoker (less than 1 year quit after smoking for 15+) I can see both sides of the argument. The part that gets me though is when smokers force their habit and smell (yes smokers smell) on children whether inside or out. No child deserves to have their clothes smelling of smoke and I hope I don't run into this situation when on holiday this year.
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I think piddling in the sea when young children are playing is a worse habit.,,,,,kind of peeing al fresco.
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Have you actually got any legs? Had it ever crossed your tiny mind that you could move?
"Tiny mind"??? Hmmm........
Smoking and inflicting it on others isn't exactly the actions of an educated mind.
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As someone that's uses an inhaler and has had to leave a table because of smoke blown my way I can cope with ,but having it blown on my two small Grandchildren I find it offensive they cannot get up and leave.
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Threatening to crush the property of others is the action of an ignorant and stupid barbarian.
I will do what I am allowed to do (decreasingly) with sensitivity to others. I will not be bullied or blackmailed. As it happens, my educational qualifications are more than adequate, thank you.
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Sellsy
Going back to your original 2 questions,
Pedantic? No
Others opinion? I think it is agree or disagree depending on their point of view!
Looking forward to your next 'blockbuster' thread ;D
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Loftyscot - It was a well intended genuine question merely seeking out opinion regarding this aspect of dining.I have tried to put it into context that on a rare occasion our meal was genuily spoilt as all tables around us were smoking throughout. No big scene,we just finished off and went for a few beers!
I honestly believe there is room for both with a little bit of give and take required on either side. I would say however , that for every clean air soldier , there is a smoker who appears to revel in the Corfu freedom of being able to smoke as and when, and many show little regard for those who would rather not be covered by smoke.
In the context of this old world it's no big deal as such, I very much approve of ,and appreciate some of the light hearted banter within the thread. I prefer to read them over some of the barbed comments and pseudo threats. Having said all of that, I hope members agree this has been an interesting thread, just wouldn't want people falling out or getting upset about it! Now then, peeing in the sea is not as bad because....... ;D
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Have you actually got any legs? Had it ever crossed your tiny mind that you could move?
What a selfish and biased comment from a man who was apparently a BBC news producer/presenter (reading, writing and evaluating news and never been sued, that's a surprise) also is/was an author, play-write, not to mention a person adept in metaphysics.
Surely, from such a learned person, one would expect a more balanced viewpoint of a habit that causes countless diseases and deaths in both adults and children.
Why the hell should Bristle Boy (the one with the tiny mind) move? Perhaps it would be beneficial to all if the person causing the potential health problems moved!
Adequate educational qualifications maybe, but adequate sense?
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If I am sitting smoking at an outside table and somebody comes and sits next me and then starts moaning I will suggest that they relocate.
In a crowded place unless lots of nearby people are smoking I will not smoke.
I always try to sit as far away from others as to make the potential density of any smoke negligible to zero.
I will not smoke while my neighbours are eating. I will always attempt to sit at the downwind end of the area.
That strikes me as a reasonable, civilised, and sensitive approach. Crushing other people's property does not.
I gave up smoking for four years and during that time never once complained about people smoking - in fact I found it strangely warming. Militant ex-smokers are, in my opinion, hypocritical triumphalists.
Since the Stalinist removal of freedom for bars to decide whether or not to permit smoking I have met some really great people as we sit outside under space heaters. Smoking is not always anti-social.
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I gave up smoking for four years and during that time never once complained about people smoking - in fact I found it strangely warming. Militant ex-smokers are, in my opinion, hypocritical triumphalists.
I view this very differently from you. I view it as somebody who failed to keep their quit and is taking out their own failures on those who have succeeded.
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If you're talking about me that isn't at all true. I went back to smoking deliberately, because I found it very difficult to sustain the high levels of concentration required to write screenplays.
I think it's the non-smokers who are "taking it out" - not me!
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Come on guys - this is a lovely forum for Agios Stefanos Fans - I SO enjoy reading all your ideas and views - lighthearted, supportive and helpful as they always are. Maybe this thread is about done to death now - what do you think? Time to put it to bed?
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Yes, I agree Debra but in defence of Jimbo he has clearly stated that he shows consideration to others R.E his post of today at 2.47pm and quite rightly points out if someone comes and sits near him when they are aware that he is smoking then it should be they who relocate and I also think the 'crushing of cigarettes' is what got peoples backs up, nobody has the right to do that and tbh this would only be done to those deemed an easy target such as the elderly because nobody in the right mind would try that one on with a strapping 6ft bloke unless of course they want to spend their holiday in hospital or wrapped around the nearest lampost.
Those who are complaining about smoking obviously catch a plane to their destination and most probably own a car both of which pollute the atmosphere and cause health problems but the most important thing is that the smokers who have commented on this thread have all said that they would and do show courtesy without being asked to do so, it is the attempt to treat people with aggression and dictation that irks people.
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Thanks, lllly. I think you summed that up perfectly. But I also agree with debra - enough is enough. I've probably said more than I would wish to have said, and will say little more on this topic.
As I'm a mere five feet six inches tall and elderly I am a deceptively easy target for bullies. What they don't realise is that I spent 27 years in a Japanese Dojo learning advanced ninja skills and several years in the SAS. Well - maybe not. But I have similar abilities, as all small boys wearing glasses have to develop if they are to survive. So don't pick on me!
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Just been out for a lovely meal at a country pub, eaten in a smoke free environment. In days gone by (before the smoking ban) this would have been followed by a return to our local to meet up with friends, have a laugh and maybe a game of darts before returning home at closing time. Unfortunately (since the smoking ban) the village pub has now closed, so after our meal we came home. Nothing much on the telly so thought I'd read the latest posts on the forum. This thread seems to have wandered off course slightly from the original subject of smoking while dining alfresco to smoking almost anywhere.
The one upside of not going out as much because of the smoking ban in the U.K. is that we now have more money to spend, most of which goes on our two or three weeks holiday each year in Agios Stefanos. The friendliness of the locals, the strolls along the beach, people we have met over years and the laid back feel of the village are all things which draw us back each year along with being able to walk into a bar, buy a drink, sit at a table and light a cigarette. For most of the season empty tables far outnumber occupied ones so surely there is plenty of room for everyone. The views expressed by Jules and Lilly
are fortunately the views of most reasonable people and long may this continue to be so.
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This is only a suggestion Middy, but if you gave up smoking you would be healthier, save money and be able to spend even longer in SS, and may be able to have a taxi to the nearest pub?
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There's also a lot more to pubs closing than the smoking ban. As someone who works in the drinks industry there are a number of factors. Mainly the aggressive duty escalator which has seen tax on beer increase by 45% since 2008. Also the fact that around the time the smoking ban came in, around 14000 of the Uks pubs were owned by Punch and Enterprise Inns. Basically they lease out pubs with high rents and charge their tenants over the odds for drinks when compared to the free market.
Most free houses have coped well with the smoking ban. ..... unfortunately these tenancies haven't! !!
The Uk now has the highest number of brewers since 1940!
Then there's also the aggressive supermarket pricing......
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I think another factor is the rise of the wine-bar. There are four just round the corner from us and they are extensively used by women of all ages, unlike the three pubs.
The only time I go to any of the pubs is to watch football. The Pave wine-bar always has excellent guest beers and great and varied food. The pubs have all stopped serving food, and all you can drink is fizzy freezing cold "chemical" beer.
It's a shame that so many village pubs have closed. Here in the city we have vast choice; out in the sticks the best they can do is go to Asda and stock up. A whole dimension of social life has been lost.
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I know the Pave...... great place!! The ones that differentiate and sell cask ale, good food or both have a lot better chance than those that just stock Carling & John Smiths as an example!!
Our local is a tenanted boozer. Couple that have it now took it on two years ago.
Whilst it did well for bands it struggled at other times and previous tenants left because they couldn't make a go of it.
The pub now sells 3 cask ales, has cask marque accreditation and now also sells a decent range of wine. They've kept the band nights going also and generally cleaned the pub up.
Its now thriving. Don't get me wrong...... they're never gonna make a fortune..... still paying high rent and over the odds price for beer through the pub co. But they are now making a go of it where the previous folk (who relied on the Carling and ciggie crowd) failed
Wmc, are in the , main totally struggling after smoking ban
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Right! Two of the pubs down the avenue have seriously reduced the amount of tables and chairs. This is probably (what do I know?) because they want the maximum weekend night packed in crowd of boozers tanking up before they go clubbing. They can keep it.
You'll know far better than we do, but I think the entire demographic is changing. Down Princes Avenue (30 yards away!) the population of the wine-bars changes over the day and over the week. In the week, lunch is a quiet and calm event - lots of young mums with prams, some geriatrics like me, quiet modern jazz playing, crosswords being done and so on. Weekend nights - total mayhem: hundreds of people parachuting in from the estates to the north of the city; tube-tops and mini-skirts; huge crush at the bar; impossible to hear the quiet jazz. I love the way Pave and the avenue change like the weather.
Last night went into Ray's Place (Nepalese - 45 yards away) and ordered some take-away. 30 minutes to kill, so I thought I'd have a drink. Impossible to get into the first three wine bars for the sheer number of people. Made the huge 75 yards walk to Pave. Totally crowded, but being a regular has its merits, and I got a glass of wine passed over the bar in seconds. The nine feet tall black girl next to me was impressed. Not quite impressed enough, but there you go.
I think we're watching an evolutionary process. People want some semblance of class, not spit and sawdust, even if they overwhelm it from time to time. Many pubs have just not learned to adapt.
One of the bad side-effects of the general smoking ban in Europe is, for me, the fact that Paris no longer smells like Paris. It used to smell of warm bread, beer and Gaulloise. Those aromas hung around the Metro and the vents in the street. Rich, exciting, full of atmosphere. Now if Paris smells of anything it's cat poo. Thus does the urge for us to live in an aseptic, sterilised, neutralised environment rob of us so much diversity.
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Yup....... in the trade known as a chameleon bar..... different by day to night. My mate runs a pub like this in town..... mums and business folk during the day, a dirty rock and roll bar by night.
There's still a place for spit & swwdust but it has to be done well!! I trade with a pub in Otley called the Old Cock.... flagged floors, wooden benches and some real characters. But it serves 9 real ales, world lagers and great Pork Pies..... a proper pub. Personally I dont like Wetherspoons. Even they have a good drinks range, the beer is average at best, takes ages to get served and the toilets stink!!
Jim, go down to the Marina and try the Minerva, just reopened. Good ales and food!
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Right, let's try and put this to bed.
So if I find someone on the next table to me smoking a cigarette I shall extinguish the cigarette with a glass of water (I am not wasting good wine). After all, I will not be bullied or dictated to by that person smoking a cigarette. Because what that person refuses to admit to is the fact that they are being bullies. "I am smoking a cigarette, so what are you going to do about it?" Is that what you want Jimbo? Of course I wouldn't extinguish the cigarette. Mainly because I have my wife with me and I would not wish to cause a scene and upset others around me. Smokers on the other hand apparently love confrontation, is that right Jimbo?
My wife and I are tolerant of many things. Ignorance we are not tolerant of.
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Rod, do you seriously think that someone who is having a cigarette really thinks 'I am having a cigarette, so what are you going to do about it', why on earth would smoking a cigarette cause someone to be aggressive and why on earth would anybody who is on holiday be hatching a plan to annoy others, do you think people are that small minded? it seems you are saying that all smokers are aggressive/confrontational when obviously this is not the case, are all drunks wife beaters then?
Smokers love confrontation do they? What all smokers? You mean there is not a smoker in the world who avoids confrontation, are you sure about that? There are many things that I find ignorant in some people many,many things but tolerance of each other is needed but the fact is you cannot tell someone how to live their life whether that concerns tobacco or alcohol. Smoking is allowed in Greece so nobody is breaking the law and all smokers on here have said they would and do show consideration including Jimbo if you care to thoroughly read the topic back to yourself perhaps it will become clearer to you who was posting with an aggressive attitude.
'Crushing someones cigarette' is aggressive, is it not?
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Lilly,
I did say that I would NOT crush someones cigarette. However YOU mention "hatching plans, annoy others, small minded, drunks and wife beaters". Very strange. I was only going to extinguish a cigarette. ;)
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No not strange at all just pointing out that the majority of smokers are considerate and do not set out to annoy others but nobody can dictate what other people do, I just go on holiday to have a good time and won't be playing spot the smoker or wafting my arms complete with mock coughing, I will be far to busy enjoying the delights of SS. :) :)
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No not strange at all just pointing out that the majority of smokers are considerate and do not set out to annoy others but nobody can dictate what other people do, I just go on holiday to have a good time and won't be playing spot the smoker or wafting my arms complete with mock coughing, I will be far to busy enjoying the delights of SS. :) :)
Totally agree Lilly.
Like some others before has this topic run it's course? Everyone now seem to be going round in circles
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I too will enjoy the delights of San Stef. The beautiful place that it is and the lovely people who live and visit there. The main poster of this thread asked for feedback regarding smoking whilst eating. Now if you all trawl the posts I think you will find Sellsy came in for some unnecessary critisism. You dont like it back do you? ;)
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As Lilli and Jules have said - this has run its course. Most of the aggression has come from people like Rod. Much as I would like to say exactly what I think of them, I won't. I will continue, I hope, to be considerate of others, despite the fact that some of the postings on here would turn me from considerate to bloody-minded.
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Jim, go down to the Marina and try the Minerva, just reopened. Good ales and food!
Gav - have known it for 40 years. It's even in a TV play I wrote. I think they used the facility money from the BBC to do it up a bit!
Link here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100642/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100642/)
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As Lilli and Jules have said - this has run its course. Most of the aggression has come from people like Rod. Much as I would like to say exactly what I think of them, I won't. I will continue, I hope, to be considerate of others, despite the fact that some of the postings on here would turn me from considerate to bloody-minded.
You have a great way with words Jimbo when you attack somebody as having a "tiny mind" then say that most of the aggression has come from others.
I will agree though that this thread has run it's course and probably needs locking up.
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In response to aggression. Read the thread!
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In response to aggression. Read the thread!
I have done.
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Great pub Jim....... can't believe you wrote Tuckers luck?! About Jules!!
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The 'discussion' rumbles on and appears to be quite divsive, which in itself is v unusual for the San Stef forum.
That probably tells a story about how smoking has become v 'black and white'.
I did not mean to cause offence earlier this week - al fresco smoking is fine - that's where it should be, but just be considerate to the tables near you. You wouldnt blow smoke over your friends on your table, so why slyly blow it over your shoulder to affect the table(s) near you?
When we were in San Stef in 2010 and 2009 both hotels we stayed in had no smoking in their bars but never enforced it. Did it spoil our friendships with people we met? No.......but it would've been preferable if the people we'd met had stepped outside to smoke.
As for the UK the smoking ban has been brilliant. Not going home without smoke smelling clothes or a hoarse throat (or coughing in the night) has been fab.
More people going to pubs to eat and drink - many families would not have considered a good pub to eat, without the smoking ban.
As for the argument that pubs have suffered because of the smoking ban - complete rubbish!
Pubs have suffered because
(i) Peoples eating and drinking habits have changed
(ii) It's become much cheaper to drink at home
(iii) Rents from the brewers have vastly increased
(iv) The large brewery conglomerates have inflicted around 3 price increases/year on beer for last 30 years ( the govt tax take is small compared to brewery price increases every year)
As for smokers thinking they have a right to inflict their filthy habit on others, why not congregate in your own room and let each other inhale each other's putrid smoke - the rest of us, especially my 2 year old grandson, shouldn't have to.
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You have a great way with words Jimbo when you attack somebody as having a "tiny mind" then say that most of the aggression has come from others.
I will agree though that this thread has run it's course and probably needs locking up.
Completely agree
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Brizzle Boy.....
Most pubs aren't actually brewery owned..... they are now owned by Punch and Enterprise Inns and the like who charge nigh on full list price for beer despite receiving hefty discounts and who also charge high rents.
With regards to Brewery Increases...... we deffo only put ours up once a year, same goes for our competitors. The amount does vary..... we only went up 4%....... Heineken put John Smiths up 2.5% but also reduced the ABV saving themselves about £7m quid in duty!!
I can't remember a year where any of the big boys put through more than one increase!!
4 % isnt a bad increase when you consider price of fuel and also the effect on hop prices the bad summers have had!!
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My goodness what a thread that was!! I think my policy when on holiday is live and let live! I'm a non-smoker but would imagine it's wonderful to go on holiday and have the luxury of smoking in places you're not allowed over here. After all holidays are all about doing things you can't do back home, eg. Drinking cocktails before noon!! One of my favourite things to do!! :o ;D
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You loose woman!!!
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Ha!!
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Well, it certainly hasn't been a "drag" has it?
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Brizzle Boy.....
Most pubs aren't actually brewery owned..... they are now owned by Punch and Enterprise Inns and the like who charge nigh on full list price for beer despite receiving hefty discounts and who also charge high rents.
With regards to Brewery Increases...... we deffo only put ours up once a year, same goes for our competitors. The amount does vary..... we only went up 4%....... Heineken put John Smiths up 2.5% but also reduced the ABV saving themselves about £7m quid in duty!!
I can't remember a year where any of the big boys put through more than one increase!!
4 % isnt a bad increase when you consider price of fuel and also the effect on hop prices the bad summers have had!!
Yes i know.
My wife's parents used to be leaseholders (when they were alive) - i worked in a pub for 3 years many years ago; my current boss owns a pub.
I know how much pub landlords/ladies have to pay but it's a fact that the beer suppliers increase their prices each year far more than the govt tax - has been for years.
Just look at the balance sheets of the large brewery conglomorates - huge profits. They've only got themselves to blame for less customefs using the pubs and turning to cheap supermarket drinks.
It's a fact that beer inflation in pubs has been double normal inflation for last 30 years.
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Agree to an extent but if you look at a single pint...... pub makes more profit on that pint than the brewer!! Way more.
I make around 20-22% margin....... Free Trade pubs make around 55% with some as high as 70%. Obviously brewers sell millions of pints when compared to an individual pub.
Brewery I work for is building 25 new managed house per year. Creating jobs and investing in the industry! Good beer and good value food!
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Good Beer - debatable -
So it's Marstons Light Ale v Mythos
I'll have a Mythos any time.... LOL
TIP:
Marstons should sell Mythos and profits will expand once more -
the populous will rush out to pubs again and the Greek economy will be re-born -
Europe will collectively shout "Yammas"......